Look, to fix the climate, we're going to need resources and money is how we're going to pay for them. I interview Jonny Page from Cyan Finance to find out how the green finance industry works, what the challenges are, the different players involved and how to get money to where it can be most effective.
On today's episode recorded on April the second 2020 I spoke with Jonny Page from Cyan Finance.
Jonny's background in sustainability includes partnerships with the UN environment program, and he's also stood as a counselor for the green party in the UK. He's also successfully co-founded and security investment for his own startups and now works with prospective green companies to bring them into the science portfolio and help them with financing.
I met Jonny at one of our meetups for the London climateaction.tech community. We were playing the deep decarbonisation draft game. This is a game where you have to pick the decarbonisation strategies that give you the best results without researching on the internet. Let me just say, Johnny was doing really, really well. It was very clear. He knew off by heart, which strategies were the most effective. We spoke later and it turned out he is part of an organisation called Cyan Finance, a green merchant bank, they invest their own balance sheet into green and sustainable businesses, as well as helping to raise capital from their network for clients.
Look, to fix the climate, we're going to need resources and money is how we're going to pay for them. I wanted to interview Jonny to honestly find out how the green finance industry works at this level. What the challenges are. The different players involved and how to get money to where it can be most effective.
Asim Hussain: [00:00:00] Welcome to the climate fix. My name is Asim. On this show, we shine a spotlight on nonprofits, academics, corporations, startups, anyone working on a solution to the climate problem.
On today's episode recorded on April the second 2020 I spoke with Johnny Page from Cyan Finance. Johnny's background in sustainability includes partnerships with the UN environment program, and he's also stood as counselor for the green party in the UK. He's also successfully co-founded and security investment for his own startups and now works with prospective green companies to bring them into the science portfolio and help them with financing.
I met johnny at one of our meetups for the london climateaction.tech community. We were playing the deep decarbonisation draft [00:01:00] game. This is a game where you have to pick the decarbonization strategies that give you the best results without researching on the internet. Let me just say, Johnny was doing really, really well.
It was very clear. He knew off by heart, which strategies were the most effective. We spoke later and it turned out he is part of an organization called Cyan Finance, a green merchant bank, they invest their own balance sheet into green and sustainable businesses, as well as helping to raise capital from their network for clients.
Look, to fix the climate. We're going to need resources and money is how we're going to pay for them. I wanted to interview Johnny to honestly find out how the green finance industry works at this level. What the challenges are. The different players involved and how to get money to where it can be most effective.
Let's dive in. So, hi Johnny. What is the climate problem that you're solving?
Jonny Page: [00:01:58] There are loads of [00:02:00] fantastic innovations and small people with ideas of how we can mitigate and sometimes even reverse the impacts of climate breakdown. The one thing which will hold all of those back from being successful is access to finance.
Quite simply, if he can't, if we don't fund something, we can't fund something, then that will never become a reality. The problem is that for businesses that are looking for larger checks, for looking for larger amounts of money pre coronavirus, there was access. You know, there were, there is an established mechanism to fund businesses like that, especially if you're looking for a certain tour to 20 million plus.
But if you just, let's say you got some money from friends and family, you've got your business up and running, you're now starting to find that you're having some impacts and you're looking for. In the order of, let's say a few hundred thousand even [00:03:00] less up to the 10 15 20 million. There's a gap there, which some people call the sort of Valley of death, and if you can't bridge that Valley of death, if you can't get out, if you can't get from that friends and family round through to those larger checks, then you know there's innovations that we really, really need to be a success.
Somebody won't be able to make it. And
Asim Hussain: [00:03:26] is that what sign finance is doing? That's the gap that our company is filling
Jonny Page: [00:03:30] all thesis is that's the future state of the economy is one that is centered around, um, the green economy. And at some point in the future, every investment and every business will be green because the businesses that have a negative impact on the environment.
Will be priced out in some way, but we don't know how soon this will happen. We don't have is going to happen soon enough, but what we do know is that [00:04:00] you just have to look at the shift in public consciousness that is happening on average, and these things are always on average, and we take them on a case by case basis.
But if you can find a way of doing. The same, having the same results but with, but by using fewer resources and having less impact on the environments than either if you, if you price those two things in, it's obviously cheaper to make you use less resources. And we will and are starting to see legislation that is, um, encouraging people to, to have less impact on the environment.
But your
Asim Hussain: [00:04:39] thesis is that not only is it doing better financially, but it will continue to do better financially because fundamentally green is just going to be cheaper, especially if the legislation comes in to price the externalities correctly
Jonny Page: [00:04:54] to make it all fair. Exactly. You're absolutely right. The externalities of the moment are not priced in [00:05:00] the the cost.
Yeah. Like I said, the cost of carbon and et cetera, it's not priced in. Um, there's a. A sort of a thought experiment we sometimes use to explain this to, to either convention investors or to to people newer to the industry. We call it the inverse pie chart. So what you'll often hear is companies saying, Oh, well we put in 10% of our investment portfolio into ESG investments, or we put 25% or 50% or 75% the question really is.
As soon as that is below 100% if a green investment is an investment, which doesn't, which, which doesn't have a negative impact on the environment, that means if it is not a green investment than it, than it is having a negative environment. The environment, so the invest probably shot for us is, well, it's 10% of your, if 10% of your investments are green, then the inverse of that is 90% of your [00:06:00] investments are going towards destroying the planet.
Asim Hussain: [00:06:03] Cause you're right, it's not a green or neutral. It's quite binary, isn't it?
Jonny Page: [00:06:07] Exactly. Siren finance is a green merchant bank. So we deploy our own balance sheets, capital into green, sustainable businesses, but we also work to channel an external capital into the sector as well. And we not only deploy our own capital, but we also work with other peoples.
And the reason why that's important is because, you know, the, the, the green economy, by definition needs to grow for our economy to become greener. The most important thing that we can do right now is help. Bigger investors, banks, um, you know, rich individuals, family offices, endowments to move their capital into this sector.
Ideally, in an ideal world, those investors who are currently investing into bad [00:07:00] investments in our eyes, so fossil fuels, et cetera, say whilst it's important to. Make sure that the money that is already in the green economy is applied in the most important places and the most impactful areas. It's also super important right now that we make sure that people who are divesting from other sectors are investing into this sector.
That's a really good
Asim Hussain: [00:07:26] point. I hear a lot about divestment, but not enough by investment.
Jonny Page: [00:07:30] Exactly. And so whilst it's great to see places like New York and all these big universities divesting, so it's important that that capital was put to work because if it's not put to work, then it won't have, it'll, it'll only have a fraction of the impact that it could have.
Asim Hussain: [00:07:46] So it sounds like your role, so helping other capital feed into this space. And you mentioned various different sources, like one thing you mentioned, what is it called? Family
Jonny Page: [00:07:57] family offices.
Asim Hussain: [00:07:58] I discovered that word recently. [00:08:00] Those are the incredibly rich, like the Vodafones and the people who own kind of very large companies kept in the family, right?
Yeah. So you also speak to these people and it sounds like educating them on how to invest or perhaps bring them in and convince them to invest in green finance. What are those conversations look like? How are you convincing people. To move their finances over to a more green
Jonny Page: [00:08:24] target. I'm really glad you asked that question because it ties into what we were talking about before.
So when it comes to the companies that we're working with, the first question that we ask them is, what are your green credentials? We're very aware that we're a unique company in that respect, and that most companies ask about my financial returns through available first. But what's really important here is we don't talk that same language to the investors on the other side.
So there's two. One of the reasons why there is a gap is because these two sides of the equation talk very different languages. And so our [00:09:00] interest with financial investors is to, as you say, educate them. Now, those organizations all have what is called a fiduciary responsibility to look after the money that is within their management.
And try and ensure they get as higher return as possible. But whilst mitigating the risk, our role here is to show that green sustainable companies, which are by definition future-proofed because they are designed to integrate into this green, sustainable future economy are one of the most effective ways that you can.
Mitigate your risk against this shift, the weight shift towards green sustainable investments, and also to get access to that, to the returns that you will be seeing as we, as these companies grow and expand and, and most importantly, [00:10:00] companies who have not considered. The green sustainable future of not designed themselves to fit within this green sustainable future.
They will start to fall away and we will see. We are already seeing this and we will continue to see this moving forward.
Asim Hussain: [00:10:17] I love that, that that sounds like we already know that the future is going to be full of green sustainable companies. We know that because there's already evidence of it that outperforming the markets.
The only type of organization that can possibly exist in the future is a sustainable company. And so therefore you're just trying to tell them how they can keep their money or how they can make money. And that's like, yeah. Yeah. So how does this scale, like what's the route from where you are now to the maximum potential impact of science, finance?
Jonny Page: [00:10:55] The way that, and finance becomes a. [00:11:00] An established force in this sector and in the financial financial services sector as a whole is by proving that investing with a green sustainable mindsets will lead to. Better returns than by not doing that. And ironically, one of the ways that we need, one of the things that we need to do that is to educate other financial services firms.
So the companies that we talk to these. Exactly. Yeah. Because it is a worryingly small fraction of. People in the sector that take the climate emergency seriously and think it is anything apart from a fad, which in their defense, they have seen a number of over the last however long they they've worked in the sector, whether it be emerging markets or private capital or real estate.
Um. They will have seen these things come and go, [00:12:00] and what they need to realize is that this is not like any of those things because this is not something which is going to boom and then reach as capacity and then potentially be overpriced and correct yourself. This is something which is in all of you, the financial services sector.
Reverting back to its basic principles, which is that if an investment isn't sustainable, then it is not an investment. And for us that should be common sense. That should be something which is inherent in all investments, in all investment decisions in the long term. What is clear, and you know, there's lots of reasons for this, is that.
That hasn't been the case for a long time. Um, and those, those organizations who haven't [00:13:00] got that kind of culture about core at their core, we'll start to fall behind as compared to companies that are trying to internalize those ideas. I
Asim Hussain: [00:13:10] think one of the challenges is that it's difficult for people to know.
Where to put their money. Like what is a start of what is an organization which has the climate impact? And in fact, the thing that's probably going to trigger a mass movement of money into the sustainability space are funds and organizations and banks like yourself just being a huge success and sustainability funds.
Having huge successes with unicorn startups and the like and your bank having huge successes. That all by itself I think is interesting. I think that's going to just same way as blockchain and perhaps AI and all these other technologies really got people excited and really brought their eye on to things.
I think your success is actually going to help drive a lot of money, the direction that we needed to
Jonny Page: [00:13:58] go. [00:14:00] One of the issues of getting money pouring into this space is the. If you pour, you know, if you pour a hundred liters of water into a bucket and put it pinprick in the bottom of it, it takes a long time for that water to drain out.
So one of the issues is that writing a check of a hundred million for a bank is very doable and it's easier. We, we often say is often it's easier to do an IPO for a hundred million. Than it is to raise a hundred thousand from the markets. The reason is because writing those bigger check sizes is you can deploy.
The reason is you can deploy more capital faster by writing a smaller number of bigger checks and you can by writing a large number of smaller checks because the, the work and the, the legals and [00:15:00] all of the overheads. Is the same whether you're writing a check for a hundred thousand or a hundred million, give a look like.
So what you end up with is a large pool of capital that wants to get into this sector, but it wouldn't really requires, and the social purpose of a bank has always been to take those larger sums of capital and chop it up into smaller amounts and funnel it to where society needs it. And so again, like to bring it back to sign, that's what all of you is, is the biggest priority right now for society is to fund green sustainable SMEs and startups and so and, um, and also to, to make sure that this capital, which wants to get into the sector can get into the sector.
And there's two ways that two things that are important, it's those are the size of the capital. So making sure that it is small enough for these businesses to take without them over capitalizing [00:16:00] themselves. Secondly, it is making sure that it is the right type of capital. So. I've fundraised myself for my own startups and I took equity capital.
If you talk to most startups, they normally talk about equity finance because everyone kind of understands when you sell a bit of your business for X amount and then you spend that X on developing the business Mo, most commercial finance, we will understand that you could borrow money to invest. Or that you can, instead of buying a piece of equipment, which is going to bring value to your company, you might lease it instead.
And these are two options which are generally speaking, not available at the bottom end of the spectrum. Because again, it's hard to do in businesses that scale, and it's much easier to do it at that larger end. And so. The goal of science is to try and be as like Gnostic as possible so that when [00:17:00] someone comes to us and explains what their business is doing, what their challenges are, um, and how capital might fix that, we don't have a, a menu of options, a strict menu of options, which says, well, actually we only do.
Equity finance, and so whatever problem you come into us with, we're going to try and fix that with equity capital. And it's by no means by no fault of the financial services sector as a whole, that individually, each of the organizations within the sector, you mentioned funds, funds, we'll take capital from investors and we'll explain in their perspective, we will be investing your capital into companies of this size and scale with this kind of EBITDAR with.
This kind of growth potential and in check sizes of this size into debt or equity or something like that. And so as soon as you are narrowing yourself down like that, it makes it a lot more difficult to help [00:18:00] a larger, broader, broad company, broad scale of companies within a sector. So our, our vision is to say, well, actually come to us whether you are looking for 25,000 for an electric vehicle.
25 million to scale your business internationally, or 250 million in debts to radically shift the way that your business works in order to, um, again, align yourself with this future, uh, future economy. So we will, we can deploy that capital either from our own balance sheet or we can connect you to that capital from somewhere else.
Asim Hussain: [00:18:39] I see. So. I hadn't actually thought of finance from that perspective, from the types of different finance and yes, I just automatically think about equity finance that you need to think about. Start up. You think about giving up stock shares, but yes. Also, if I'm a small to medium business, small SME business, I don't want to give up the [00:19:00] shares.
I just want to take a loan. A, you know, an electric vehicle. You mentioned as a great example. Can you give some examples of the types of organizations that you help or have helped.
Jonny Page: [00:19:10] So if you are a business which is investing into research and development, the UK, you have the, the ability to claim back part of that spend as R and D tax credits.
And at the end of the year, you will put a new claim as part of your tax return. It'll come back to you within X number of months. It depends how busy HR at the time. Um. I know, obviously that's great because you get that and you can spend that in year two on whatever it is you feel the need to spend it on.
One of the most popular products that we use, and again, we, we often talk about bringing the kind of common sense thing side of things to finance is I was saying, well hang on a minute. If you are, if we [00:20:00] know, if you know roughly what you're going to be spending in year one and that you'll be claiming it back at the end of year one to get it back in year two.
If we can just advance finance that we know roughly halfway through the year and year, year, month six or seven, you are going to know roughly what you're spending on R and D that year and if it aligns with what you spent the previous year, why don't we give you that capital now so that you can spend that on R and D today.
Accelerate your growth today so that you're in a better position at the end of the year. Regardless, and of course you're still going to get, because we weren't finance at all. You're still gonna get a portion of that back from HMRC.
Asim Hussain: [00:20:40] And just for our listeners, HMRC is the UK is tax authority hemp. What's it stand for?
Her Majesty's,
Jonny Page: [00:20:46] I imagine this is revenue and customer, which for the
Asim Hussain: [00:20:48] non UK people find it quite funny that our government agencies always start with her Majesty's. But anyway,
Jonny Page: [00:20:53] yeah. So they are, they're the organization that, um, that eventually is where this capital is [00:21:00] flowing back to siren from. So it's great for us because as long as that company remains a going concern through into year two, then we can be fairly confident we can collect.
And so. Whereas most organizations would look at a startup who's investing into R and D who is by definition all of a sudden going to be loss making, because that is when you get the most benefit from that particular system. Most lenders would say, absolutely not. Um, we're seeing that a lot of the moment they'll say that that is not a sort of business that we can learn to.
Um, the only option then they will have is to go to other kinds of providers, such as angels or VCs or some kind of equity capital. Um, actually finance option. There's another example of that, which is again, very popular and. Um, I'd be happy for your listeners to know about, which is innovate UK funding.
Um, so most people know that you can apply to innovate [00:22:00] UK for either specific calls that they've put out or for one of their generic ones. Uh, and especially they've got a lot in the green in the green sector. So
Asim Hussain: [00:22:09] innovate UK is a government fund where you can find money. Yeah. One, explain it a little bit.
Jonny Page: [00:22:15] So innovate UK is the, is part of UK research and innovation. And their role is to put out to tender problems that the government. C's. So for example, clean transport or clean, uh, heating, um, or just, you know, a green energy system as a whole, companies can then apply and say, well, we would do X, Y, and Z if you found us.
And it's all focused on R and, D. So these are, these, uh, projects are almost always going to be noncommercial. Um, so it will be, for example. Testing a innovative type of charging mechanism. Now, most [00:23:00] startups wouldn't risk a lot of this R, and, D because the strain that extreme that it can put on you if it doesn't work.
Could potentially bring your business under. Um, and so they're, the kind of cost benefit there is normally worth it. But from a, from a government's perspective, they want to incentivize this. One of the problems there is a little bit like the R and D thing. Um, the capital comes afterwards, so you have to spend the money to get to claim it back on a three monthly period, quarterly period.
So if you are a company, a looking at a new type of. Home instead of home insulation, for example, or smart home project. Um, in month, month one, you invest into this already project. Month two, you invest in DOD, project three, and you invest in day on D project month and above three of them for you. Sit down with your project manager.
They work [00:24:00] out. If you hit your targets and then they will reimburse you. So for most startups and most SMEs, they don't have cash sat around waiting to be spent. Um, so our role here again is just trying to advance finance those things so that they can invest that capital at the beginning. And then, um, you know, it basically smooths out the, the cashflow.
Issue, whereas normally it's quite lumpy. This smooths out through the, uh, throughout the time of that project, it
Asim Hussain: [00:24:33] sounds like you're using some pretty innovative techniques or methods, it sounds like wearing it, at least to try and mitigate the risks of some of this investment, to make sure that you can support these lean startups, whereas other banks and institutions just wouldn't bother.
They wouldn't bother trying and looking for these ways to mitigate this risk, which is why they wouldn't lend money to those kinds of organizations. Oh,
Jonny Page: [00:24:59] amazing. [00:25:00] Yeah. So
Asim Hussain: [00:25:00] can you give a couple of examples of some of the portfolio of companies or organizations that you invest
Jonny Page: [00:25:08] in? So we have taken a view on, on a few different markets, has been particularly impactful with them.
The, uh, within this new future economy, one of these has been even ability. And there's lots of reasons behind that. Partly it's from a regulatory perspective, we are pushing on an open door and government and other investors and are receptive and, and keen to sort of see that sector become a success. But also it feeds into everything else.
So. Battery and battery storage, for example, is already a core part of that energy generation, energy transmission, and all of these different sort of things all feed together to, um, in, in that one sector is impacted and connected to all of those other ones. So Verizon is a very good [00:26:00] place to start. Um, a few examples within the would be the Moto.
So V Moto. Uh, important, distributes two wheeled electric vehicles that you might see them, for example, delivering pizzas and takeaways and what have you. Um, and replacing those noisy, uh, dirty two-stroke note two stroke mopeds. Um. And then you will see, uh, and also apparently a lot of people commuting on them cause there are quite a pleasant way to give you, uh, I've been told, uh, on the charging infrastructure, which is often brought up as a, as a necessity within that sector.
We have, for example, um, financed a company called charging a London based company that electrifies existing street furniture. So you take something like a lamppost. And you pop the backpack on it. And what that does [00:27:00] is obviously when it's wide in, provides a relatively, what they'd call a slow trickle charge.
So you will plug your car in or a DJ. Yeah. Your moped in overnights and that will slowly charge. Um, so it does, so it's not too stressful on the grid. Obviously it's cheaper for you. It's normally green or energy at those times. Uh, and you know, it depending on the tower of, sometimes you can even be cost negative.
Um, so that is a, a great example of a company that is doing some really good, innovative, innovative stuff in the charging sector. How volt is a. A great company, which connects into that is a great example of how that university connect sector is so vital for us making a green future. So powerful. It takes second life electric vehicle batteries.
So these are, they will take the batteries out of electric [00:28:00] vehicles. And the individual cells within those batteries, they will repackage those into a home charging unit. And so that then acts as your homes smart battery system, which can obviously take a charge and discharges as needed and shows that.
That sector is really thinking about that circular economy approach of how do we extract as much value as possible from, uh, from these resources that we're acquiring and we're taking out the ground? How do we extract as much value as possible throughout their lifetime cycle? If you are, you know, greens zealots as I've been coached before, finding something which, and finding it, finding a finance company did green.
Yeah. Green. Exactly. Funny finance company that shares your passion and shares your vision of where the future is, is very tricky. Um, [00:29:00] and of course being represented by a company like that. Has its benefits, not just from a perspective of wanting to green your supply chain, but also, you know, that they will be the, we are doing this for the right reasons, uh, because you know, we again, believe that you are, um, as a green company that's looking to get access to capital, the future of our economy.
And that is why we focus exclusively on you. And that's why we are, you know, embedded within that economy. And so when it comes to the kind of investors, the, we're looking thought to the kind of competitors that you're working against, the kind of partners that we can work with, these are people and organizations that.
Um, we just naturally come into contact with every day and build up that network as opposed to this is the first time we've ever heard what a kilowatt is. We have to try and understand that before we even take that second step. [00:30:00] I'm trying to work out how to work with you as a company.
Asim Hussain: [00:30:02] So I really want to move on for a second and talk about you if I can kind of your background and what inspired you to join and finance.
Jonny Page: [00:30:11] I'll give you the version that I'd be allowed to talk about the root reason. So I worked, I, uh, I worked at ITN and I was putting these programs together. Yeah. Um. Uh, sponsored content use programs. Uh, one of them was called, um, a big, it was an energy focused program and it became pretty clear pretty quickly about the amount of greenwashing was happening.
And this is in 2014 and it was the same year that offshore wind was. Um. Essentially banned in the UK. And I always remember about moment samurai office. Um, and that click when I was like, Oh, this doesn't happen unless we make it happen. And so I was like, well, I need to, I need to work in the sector because otherwise I will drive [00:31:00] myself crazy.
Um, because yeah, that, that cognitive dissonance there of knowing that something needs to be done but not doing it would drive me nuts. Um. So then I, I was sort of trying to move into the sector and it's, you know, it's still very new. This is 2014. Um, and it's, it took me a while to get into it. And I ended up putting events on for the UN around sustainability and my, uh, sort of landmark event there was putting an event on alongside the UN general assembly, focusing specifically on sustainable finance.
And it. Meant that I had the opportunity to talk to the entire investment chain from what we call asset owners, who are the people who ultimately own the capital through to the investment managers, who are the people who are paid to decide where that capitalism invested, and then through to the companies who those bad capitalist [00:32:00] eventually invested into.
And it became pretty apparent that there's a break in that chain in the middle where there is a lack of. Um, where the incentive model is not aligned with longterm growth, longterm sustainable investments. So if you're an insurance company, you need to make sure that that money is still around in a hundred years time.
If you're an endowment, you need to make sure that money is still there in a hundred years time. If you're an investment manager in reality, your D, your bonus and your incentive structure is really measured in months and years. Rather than, you know, decades and centuries. So that would, that became pretty clear that.
And so I was like, well, I definitely want to do this. And now I was very lucky enough to, to meet the, the founder of Saigon. Um, just, just happenstance. And then, um, you know, I was, before that I was [00:33:00] running my own startups. And, you know, in, in the education sector. So I'm very used to being in a sector that is shy, uh, that is, that is, um, struggling together to get a lot of capital into it.
Um, and so when I, when I, when I, you know, when I met with him, we sort of, I think we, we saw sort of kindred spirits and that we both. We both really wanted to make a big impact. And, um, we wanted to, you know, we weren't, we're not sort of scared of going against the status quo and, and, and in trying to do something different.
Um, and what we've done is we've, we've built an amazing team and, you know, really just so proud of the people that we have. Um, and it has, it's taken a long time to find them because finding. People who share that, um, that absolute need to do. [00:34:00] This has been really tricky. There's been lots of people that are, that we've spoken to that are incredibly skilled finances.
I would like to see a green a future, but when you ask them, when you talk to them about any idea, sort of, I'd say, I'm going to use the word sort of personal sacrifice. I like, do they, do they really. Do they really think it's on them do that. Would they feel pain if they weren't involved in it? The answer to, for most of them, the answer is no.
They are they, they would. It's a nice to have and what we've managed to do is build a company full of people who fit the environment and building a green bank is not a nice to have. It's an absolute necessity. That's
Asim Hussain: [00:34:48] pretty inspiring. That's really good.
Jonny Page: [00:34:50] Okay.
Asim Hussain: [00:34:51] Just the final question. So is there anything inspirational, something you've read recently, a person, our [00:35:00] listeners should follow a thought you've had, something you want to leave our listeners
Jonny Page: [00:35:03] with?
The hardest thing about working in this sector is finding writers and speakers and people who are genuinely compelling and. Can convey the urgency and the need for change. Mm. But also don't make you sort of fall into a pit of despair. So it's, it's a real, it's a real balancing act there. And you know, there are some people that are amazingly well.
Noemi Klein is fantastic. George Monbiot is just incredible. He's absolutely one of my, um. Biggest influences and moving into creating a change in mindset, which is needed to understand that things will not always be this way. There was one book, um, by [00:36:00] someone else, which is, uh, the uninhabitable earth by David Wallace Wells, who I think is, uh, the extreme and of.
Closest to that pit of despair, but has put most succinctly the expected direction of travel. If we don't change or are there, even if we just carry on and slow down, if we reach these tipping points, this is what we can expect to happen. And, you know, we are already seeing these sorts of impacts and changes on the environment.
Um, you know, 20, 20, with everything that's happening right now is, um, set up to be, to have some of the highest volume of hurricanes, um, in known history. So with everything else going on, that is also going to be something which we'll be contending with. And that. You know, fits with the last few years of increased increased number.
Asim Hussain: [00:36:58] Well, thank you so much Johnny Pace. Thank you for [00:37:00] taking us through the complexities and the importance. I'd say as well of financing green. I can see it's a really important part of the solution and I really appreciate the work that you're doing in the science finance is doing in this space. Thank you very much.
Jonny Page: [00:37:14] Thanks so much it
Asim Hussain: [00:37:19] you've been listening to Asima sane on the climate fix. If you like what you heard, please hit subscribe on your favorite podcast application. It really does help information about this episode, including all the links that we mentioned can be found on our website, the climate fixed.com if you want to message me, you can find me on Twitter as well.
Joel ache, or you can email
Jonny Page: [00:37:41] me@helloattheclimatefixed.com
Asim Hussain: [00:37:45] if you want each new episode neatly packaged together with the show notes and sent to inbox weekly, then subscribe to our newsletter, which you can again, find on the climate fix. Till next time. [00:38:00] .